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LUC BOURRAT 2 years ago
French exchange after 5. Nc3
Hello, I'm following the black mood opening course french defense, aggressive setup against ed5 (exchange variation). I think 1 variation is not covered, what to do after 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Nc3? As this knight attacks our d5 pawn, we can not play Bd6 because our queen will not defend our d5 pawn anymore. We can not play directly Ke7 because we need to develop our f8 bishop before... What to do? It looks like we must abandon our aggressive setup...
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    Philip Delbridge 7 months ago

    Thank you for raising this, Luc. I came looking through the forums for advice on this variation because I am also seeing it a lot at my level (1400-1500 rapid on chess.com). Nc3 from White as early as move 4, after the exchange on d5, is by far the most common continuation I am facing, and I do think it is an omission that it is not even briefly touched upon in the course. 

     

    1. e4, e6
    2. d4, d5
    3. exd5, exd5
    4. Nc3…

     

    The problem is that this seems to throw a spanner in the works immediately and makes it difficult for us to reach our desired setup. Since Bd6 is not an option now, Bb4 seems the best square for our dark squared Bishop. Be7 feels passive and doesn't allow us to play Nge7. 

     

    However, the move Bb4 has three major drawbacks I have found. Firstly, the b4 square is no longer available to our c6 Knight, so we cannot play Nb4 in response to opponent's Bd3. This makes White's development very easy for them. Secondly, our control over e5 is weakened and White can maybe exploit this by sticking a Knight there later on. Finally, we are in danger of losing the Bishop after White kicks it with a3, forcing the exchange and giving White the Bishop pair advantage. Moreover, White doesn't have to rush the move a3 out. For instance, they can wait until it looks like we're committing to castling long, then play a3 and open up the b file for an attack.

     

    For example:

     

    4. Nc3, Nc6

    5. Nf3, Bb4

    6. Bd3…

     

    …and we cannot play Nb4 as we might have liked to attack the Bishop on d3…

     

    6. … Nge7

    7. 0-0, Bg4

    8. h3, Bf5

    9. Bxf5, Nxf5

    10. Re1+ …

     

    …now look what happens if we continue as per the course recommended moves …

     

    10. Re1+, Nce7

    11. Qe2, Qd7

    12. Ne5 …

     

    Ouch! We are already paying for not having control of e5.

     

    Ok, so what if we don't play Bf5, but go with something like Bh5 instead?

     

    8. h3, Bh5

    9. a3, Bxc3

    10. bxc3, Qd7

    11. a4, 0-0-0

    12. Re1, f6

    13. Ba3…

     

    It is difficult to see a good plan for Black here, whereas White has the Bishop pair, the semi-open b file, and is having all the fun. Engine analysis suggests our best move is something prophylactic like a6 (to deny b5 from the Bishop). If we play the more aggressive g5 now, continuing with the plan suggested in the course, then White has a range of good options to punish us like a5, Bb5 or even the tactical shot Ne5! 

     

    I've done quite a bit of analysis on this and I think White has the favourable position. Furthermore, I don't think it is the case that they have to play particularly well to get there. These are fairly logical moves for the most part that intermediate rated players can find.

     

    So, what to do about Nc3? 

     

    I honestly don't know. I've looked at playing Be7 and going for a different setup with short castling, but it feels boring and passive. The best I can come up with at the moment is to get to this kind of position and make sure I remember not to try something like g4 prematurely, but rather play defensive and solid for a few moves, and keep an eye on the b5 square for White's Bishop. It's not like we're losing. It's just that I would prefer White's position.

     

    Does anyone have any thoughts or alternative ideas?

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      A Guy Who Plays Chess 7 months ago

      If you look a little bit down the post, Chessmood Odysseus wrote that you should go for Bb4 and similar setups. However just short castle.

      I looked at it a little, and the positions are ones were you can outplay your opponent (who plays better chess).

      Of course White will have slight advantage, but it is a playable position.

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    Eyal Politzer 10 months ago

    i rekomen you to play afer e4 e6 d4 d5 ed5 ed5 nc3 c6 and the new plan bd6 nf6 (if you got chek ne7) 0:0 bf5 ngd7 re8 ne4 ndf6 and rewaly akive poitzion and hard to play for white

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      Chessmood Odysseus 2 years ago

      Hi Luc and Jules… Hapy New Year to you!

       

      Luc, don't be so pessimistic! 😅 We would never recommend a line in the French that must be abandoned on the move 5! 😄

      This is a first practical repertoire and as such we cannot include all the replies to every move, that's why there is a forum and webinars and streams too.😃 
      We do not recommend the move move 4...Bd6 for Black because it reduces somehow our possibilities, we will not be able to develop the bishop to b4 in some variations as in this case.

      Therefore against 5.Nc3 we should go Bb4 pinning the knight. This will allow our knight to go to e7 and follow more or less our usual plan.💪 
       

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        Jules Carter 2 years ago
        Thank you so much for the reply! Adding it to my PGN now!
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        LUC BOURRAT 2 years ago
        Thank you for your reply, it is in fact what I did during the game, pinning the knight with Bb4, and then followed the course plan.
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        Jean Hr 2 years ago
        After Bb4 and Exchange of the c3 Knight, the B file may be opened. Can we still follow our plan in this case?
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        Chessmood Odysseus 2 years ago

        Hi Jean,

         

        No, there is no need to castle long, you can castle KS and have a very good position with equal chances. We need to adapt, the plan cannot be the same exact one because many things changed in the position… 😄

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        ChessImprov Sank 2 years ago
        One more clarification: I am seeing a lot 1.e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4. Nc3. Following the above, is 4... Bb4 5.a3 Bxc3 the followup. We lose our good Bishop but Black gets double pawns? Would plan be to play ...Nf6 and ...O-O (White has half-open b-file) etc. If 5.Bd2 then ... Nge7 and later ...Bd3 should work.
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        Chessmood Odysseus 2 years ago

        I believe that after 4.Nc3 blocking the c pawn, we go Nc6. Not Bb4 yet…😀

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        Philip Delbridge 7 months ago

        As I've discussed in my response to Luc's original post, I feel Bb4 has significant drawbacks for us. These are as follows: 

         

        - We cannot play Nb4 any longer, meaning White is free to go Bd3 and has an easy job developing.

        - The e5 square is weakened without our Bishop on d6. White can sometimes use this as an outpost for the f3 Knight later on.

        - After White plays a3, triggering the exchange of our Bishop for the Knight, White gains the Bishop pair and potentially the semi-open b file with which to attack. If we're castled long at this point then that could become very uncomfortable.

         

        That said, I cannot find anything convincingly better. It seems Black just has to remain patient and solid against White's threats, and hope to gain long term pressure against the doubled c pawns in the later game.

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      Jules Carter 2 years ago
      I've been running into this variation a LOT in my blitz games as of late. The last 7 exchange French's I've played have all had this move order and I too wish to know how to combat it. Following this thread for sure, hopefully we can get a solid answer! If I find anything, I'll also post here.
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        .. squarecrash .. 2 years ago

        I have been seeing this variation also. I am hoping that the chessmood GM's can offer some more advice on this line soon.

        Most frequently from 1.e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4. Nc3.

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